Horse: Re: [AskAVet] Stallion infertility???

OMG!? That poor mare and her owners.? They must have been ticked off.? Arabians are so beautiful.? I've always wanted one.? Now I want a black Fresian.? My husband says I have a serious problem.? Every week I want another horse...lol.? It's my new addiction.? Six months ago it was shoes and purses, now it's horses and tack.

Lisa

-----Original Message-----
From: Kim Hollingsworth <kim_hollingsworth@yahoo.com.au>
To: askavet@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, Oct 2, 2009 5:27 am
Subject: Re: [AskAVet] Stallion infertility???

Hi Lisa,

Yeah they will definitely get to mares thru fencing and do the deed.? :))? Many smash thru fences, so we really do have two remarkable stallions. I found an arab stallion one day at work on the road, and the TB mare had basically been knee capped, she was a $60 000 mare from Japan.? Well, she went on to be a broodmare, but I know it was probably the stallion who caused the injury.? There were electric fences there and they were down.? It seemed like her knees got burnt out.? Worst injury I have ever seen.

I will have to find this movie "Cloud" that was recommended, it sounds fantastic!? I also love the cartoon movie "Spirit" about a stallion.? There is something very romantic about them.? Though my other crazy colt who was gelded at age 2 was hardly a romantic experience, so I think you are right, we are very lucky in Sonny and Tonto!

I can see my larger TB colt being a gelding case soon.? The other TB colt is quieter.? They are both 3.? They show no interest whatsoever in mares.? I should clarify that Tonto has that 15hh mare, who is definitely his height and there is the old dominant mare in the herd who is shorter than Tonti and there is another shorty TB broodmare.? The rest of the mares are huge.?

Yeah, I learn heaps here too.? It was the one site which was kind to me when I lost my lovely horse to colic.?

Kim xoxoxoxo?

P.S. I bet Sonny and Tonto would have a thing or two to say to each other if they met!!!

________________________________
From: "PrincessLisa369@aol.com" <PrincessLisa369@aol.com>
To: askavet@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, 2 October, 2009 6:51:00 AM
Subject: Re: [AskAVet] Stallion infertility???

Thank you Kim?:)? I love him so much.? His coat still needs work but he's come a long way from?that?scrawny little thing knocking at deaths door.? He's so much bigger than the other yearlings on the ranch that stallion just seems to fit him.? He really recovered well from the skinny little thing he was.? It's amazing what love can do.? I think it's another reason I don't want to geld him.? He's been through enough in his short life and now he's finally happy.? Now just doesn't feel like the right time to whip out the Ginsu knives and start chopping on him.? He needs a little break from the trauma to just be happy and know that he's loved.? Those people who geld without anesthesia should be punished to the full extent of the law...maybe trade places with the horse and see how it feels.? That's cruelty.

I definitely heed to the advice of the group.? It's a wealth of information. ? I'm new to horse ownership.? These folks have probably been at this rodeo since before I was born so I know they're right.? Eventually I'm sure I will have to have Sonny gelded since he will get worse as he get's older and I will certainly cross that bridge when I come to it.? For now?he can't "complete the puzzle" without assistance.. .lol...and if he does learn on his own, I'm financially able to support his offspring.?

Lisa?

-----Original Message-----
From: Kim Hollingsworth <kim_hollingsworth@ yahoo.com. au>
To: askavet@yahoogroups .com
Sent: Thu, Oct 1, 2009 2:11 am
Subject: Re: [AskAVet] Stallion infertility? ??

OH WOW LISA!!! Stallion Sonny is just gorgeous!!!? TBs are my favourites and he looks great!!!? Oh, what a cute stallion, no wonder you feel you wanna keep him like this.? After all, he is 3 yeah?? (So technically not a stallion until next year, but he sure does deserve the title!!!) So are my two TB colts and they are dead quiet, been with mares their whole lives.? So, yes, I see what you mean.? Oh I just wanna hug Sonny, but more so ride that beautiful creature!!!? Once I get my scanner up and running I will send ya pics of my stallion and the two colts.? LOL.? Thank God you rescued him, I mostly deal in TB rescues, too, but Sonny sounds like he was about finished when you stepped in, so no wonder the bond goes so deep.

Yeah, I guess it must be frustrating for Tonto, he has two extremes, shetland ponies, or 16hh fat-butt TB mares!? There is that one 15hh mare, who may just be carrying Tonto junior.? I totally agree with you on people trying the steal Tonto's "essence".? These people in particular who I told where to go bred their mare and sold the foal on before throwing her at me.? I have no doubt they would have sold Tonto's baby on, too, and as you said, slaughterhouses are just not on.? That's why when I get horses, I keep them.? To top it off this woman then wanted her mare back and told me I was heartless when I told her NO!?

Your husband's paint sounds like he looks like Tonto!? Or Tonto looks like him!?

I think we still have to be careful to heed what is said here, though, as while we may have little angels today, they may mature tomorrow and whoa, it will all be on then.? My vet rang this morning to say he couldn't make it again today.? So Tonto has a long reprieve ahead as I am working school holidays now.? Sonny is just gorgeous.? I couldn't bring myself to geld him either LOL.? There is just something special about stallions.? But funny, I am all ok with my TBs being gelded, but it's just Tonto, and like you, I never wanted a paint either, but they win you over!!!

Sad to say out here in the bush, there are some horrible crazies who still geld their horses, without anasthetic, terrible.? Maybe Tonto will just give up on the mares, lol.? I am certainly grateful we have some experienced stallion people on this site to guide us, though!!!? I have learnt a lot.? GO Sonny and Tonto!!!

Kim xoxox

____________ _________ _________ __
From: "PrincessLisa369@ aol.com" <PrincessLisa369@ aol.com>
To: askavet@yahoogroups .com
Sent: Thursday, 1 October, 2009 12:58:42 PM
Subject: Re: [AskAVet] Stallion infertility? ??

Poor Tonto.? That must be so frustrating for him.? Maybe he needs a 14 hh pony as his girlfriend :)? I met a lady?this weekend?that had a black and white paint with a blue eye.? He was at least 16 hh and gorgeous!? Initially I thought I would never want a paint then my husband got his and the little guy won my heart.? He was not treated well by his former owners and you just want to love him.? They said he was mean and no one wanted to ride him or even be bothered with him.? He was sort of the problem child at this guy's ranch so of course my husband fell in love with and bought him.? If I go out to the fence with treats he will run the other horses away from the fence line so they don't get any.? He's very very dominant and bossy.?? He will usually fight any horse that tries to get near his food but he will move over?and let my pregnant mare eat his?food.? The first time I saw him do that it choked me up and I loved him from then on.? Under that tough
exterior, he's a sweetie just like my husband.? We've had to separate them now so he can eat because my mare is like a vacuum cleaner.?

I don't blame you for telling that woman where to get off.? What makes people think they have a right to your stallion's "essence?"? And have the nerve to get pushy about it.? Unbelievable. ? I'm not going to contribute to the back yard breeding population and have horses all over the country end up in some slimy auction or slaughter house because every Joe blow wants to breed their mare to my stallion.??I think not!? They say women are people pleasers and sometimes have a problem saying no...lol...not me.? I'm fairly new to horse ownership but I've learned quickly you need to develop a thick skin and stand your ground or?the bullies on the playground will run you over.???

Lisa

-----Original Message-----
From: Kim Hollingsworth <kim_hollingsworth@ yahoo.com. au>
To: askavet@yahoogroups .com
Sent: Wed, Sep 30, 2009 4:34 am
Subject: Re: [AskAVet] Stallion infertility? ??

Hi Lisa,

he hehe, well Tonto is still King of the dam wall!!? He appears to be somewhat defeated with these mares, as though he knows he can't get it in.? When he mounted the 16.2hh and 15.2 hh mares today, he had no hope of reaching, poked it between their legs and thought that was what he had to do.? Maybe Tonto is shorter than I thought!? When I got home today I was hugging him so much, and he loved it.? I was like, Awwww, Tonti, my little stallion!!!!

Ah, so you have had all the stallion breeding offers too!? yeah I got a very nasty text from one woman...QUOTE: ? "I thought since I gave you that horse (it was?a mare) and that we were friends that you would be more than willing to let me breed her to Tonto".? Stupid cow!!!? I told her where to go!? She dumped her mare on me, then suddenly turned around and said, hey I wanna breed her to Tonto....excuse me!!!? So she gave me a mare, because she could not afford it, then wanted to breed her to Tonto and whip away the foal?!!? I have nothing to do with her now.?

Oh yes, the crazy stallion war cries are the best!? Tonto sounds hysterical and runs with that blue eye flashing!!? I believe he may be like your man and have no idea how to do it!!!? I am like you, I can afford the foals, so yeah, I am not too worried.

I love the fact your husband's paint is gelded and did not change, as Tonto is a black and white paint stallion!!!? With one blue eye!!!? Very handsome!?

Kim xoxoxoxo

____________ _________ _________ __
From: "PrincessLisa369@ aol.com" <PrincessLisa369@ aol.com>
To: askavet@yahoogroups .com
Sent: Wednesday, 30 September, 2009 11:32:58 AM
Subject: Re: [AskAVet] Stallion infertility? ??

I had many offers to breed mares to Tonto, but at the fear of what would happen to his foals, I said NO!!? People said, "Why in the hell does she have a stallion then???"? They could not understand that it was not for the pleasure of foals and money, it was for the pleasure of experiencing his war cries and antics!?

Exactly what has happened to me.? People have begged to breed my stallion to their mare and I've said no.? They have also walked away in a huff and said, "What's that little woman gonna do with a stallion"? My response: "I paid for him so I'll do whatever I want."...lol. ? I love when those ears go up and he whinnies real loud like he's king of the mountain.? I'm sure in a few years he'll get more randy and difficult to manage and I'll cross that gelding bridge when I come to it but right now I love him just the way he is, fully intact.? And I feel this way, I have 3 horses right now.? I can comfortably afford?7 or?8 so even if a foal or two?comes along, I'll keep?them and pay for them.

I think because I've been so viciously attacked about this issue that I've become vocal about it but in my opinion to geld or not to geld is a personal?choice. ..the owners choice.? Just like when a husband and wife sit down and decide that a vasectomy is their?best option...it' s their choice.? But no one has the right to come into that home and say "Hey,?you've reached your kid limit, it's time for the old snip snip"?

If YOU feel that it's time for him to be gelded, that's awesome just as long as the decision was yours and yours alone and no one bullied you.? And I'm inclined to agree with what the others have said.? My husband's paint is gelded and it hasn't changed him one bit.? We joke that "he doesn't believe it took" because he will mount a tree stump if it falls over in his pasture...lol. ?

I hope your boy's procedure goes well.? Let us know how he's doing.

God bless!

Lisa

-----Original Message-----
From: Kim Hollingsworth <kim_hollingsworth@ yahoo.com. au>
To: askavet@yahoogroups .com
Sent: Tue, Sep 29, 2009 8:04 pm
Subject: Re: [AskAVet] Stallion infertility? ??

Hi Lisa,

Wow I loved your reply.? You are so lucky having a little 3 year old intact and running around, yee ha!!? It helps that you feel my pain!!!? While everyone here has been super nice about it, people around me are not so nice at home.? They have been at me for 4 years to get him done.? They said I would have 500 foals by now....

But I trusted my gut with him and he has been a good boy, though since he hit age 5 (which I predicted to all those who told me he would get them all in foal before then) he has now just recently changed into a REAL stallion, not just a whinnying crazy boy!!!? I have two 3 year old colts who are still placid and do foal teeth clacking to the horny mares, so they are ok, and your young man may also be just like my 3 year olds, a young gentleman not quite there yet!!!? I find with mine, the change happens at 4 to 5 years, more so than 2 or 3.? Though I did have a maniac colt, who at 2 was rearing to go!!!? He HAD to be gelded, he was out of control!!!?

I LOVE your point about the man with 6 kids!!!? EXACTLY!!!? I look at all the ones who tell me and I feel like sayin, "Why don't you knacker yourself.... and your wife... and adopt those poor kids out!!!????"? That's precisely what they are saying to us, when they tell us not to have a foal, and to get rid of it if we do!? And geld the stallion!? Why don't they geld their kids, who will just end up like their loser Dad!!!??? LOL

So, my solution has been to take everything on board, and while I had two days where I chickened out, I looked into the future and thought, well, I gave my Tonto a good innings, 5 years is a good time for him, if he was meant to make babies to have done so.? And I do suspect this one mare here who had 6 babies with former owners might be barehoofed in the kitchen next year, as she acts like his wife now!? So, I said to myself, hey if it's meant to be, I will be blessed with a little Tonto next year, or two little Tontos, and they will be welcomed and stay here with me, so I am not just gonna throw them to the sales.? I had many offers to breed mares to Tonto, but at the fear of what would happen to his foals, I said NO!!? People said, "Why in the hell does she have a stallion then???"? They could not understand that it was not for the pleasure of foals and money, it was for the pleasure of experiencing his war cries and antics!?

The vet is coming in a few hours.? I watched Tonto mount his last mare, who he can't reach anyway!!!? She is a 16.2 TB and he is barely 15 hh, so he has a lot of trouble, he seems to rub himself on them, then give up!!!!.? He is still in with them all chatting to them now, but I feel I am ready (well kinda) now, as the alternative for me at this stage is every mare possibly in foal, and three Tontos would be enough!!!? I don't want 100 Tontos!!!

Anyway, yeah, I still feel as though I am massacring him, and I would love to keep him as a stallion, but my gut is now sayin, you had a good run, it's time.? So, yeah, poor little Tonto!? But I am hoping all that everyone says here is right and he comes out of it just as cheery and happy as he is, but just without those bouncy bits!!!? ha ha? LOL.

Thanks Lisa, it is great to know I am not the only one with such a passion for stallions!!? I say keep your man intact, and like me, you will get many years enjoyment, but when you start to think, oops, then that's the time to start thinking about options, if ya need to.? And I unfortunately got to that stage now.? It was just he was such a funny stallion, that I hesitated so long.? But I hope he will be a funny gelding as of this afternoon. :(((? Well, kinda.

Kim xoxoxoxo?

____________ _________ _________ __
From: "PrincessLisa369@ aol.com" <PrincessLisa369@ aol.com>
To: askavet@yahoogroups .com
Sent: Wednesday, 30 September, 2009 1:53:38 AM
Subject: Re: [AskAVet] Stallion infertility? ??

Kim,

I soooo totally feel your pain.? My stallion is 3 and I just can't bring myself to do it to him.? I have taken a LOT of flack about?it?because some people have strong, overbearing and sometimes obnoxious?opinions about this, which they?are entitled to but?at the end of the day he's my horse, I paid for him and?any decisions made about him are?mine to make.? I know a man that has 6 children he doesn't take care of and he continues??to procreate.? I think he should be?gelded but I don't have the right to force my opinion down his throat nor does anyone have a right to?bully me into?gelding my horse.? I hope you find a workable solution.? I know just how you feel.

Lisa

-----Original Message-----
From: Kim Hollingsworth <kim_hollingsworth@ yahoo.com. au>
To: askavet@yahoogroups .com
Sent: Mon, Sep 28, 2009 4:48 am
Subject: [AskAVet] Stallion infertility? ??

Ok here is my dilemma.

I adore my stallion.? He is sweet, quiet, etc.? I locked him up to get him gelded today and just could not go through with it.? So I told him to run and let him out.

Is there a test that can tell you if they are infertile?? If so how does it work?

Even though he has been with mares for 5 years, there is not one in foal, though he has shown interest etc.

It is very difficult for me to make this decision, I guess I love his personality and watching him and his antics and am hoping he might be infertile, which may or may not mean I don't have to geld him?? He is easy to handle.? Both testes are visible and he obviously likes mares....

It may sound silly, but I was just hoping for some advice as I just could not go through with it today, even though in the past I gelded two colts.? There is just something so loveable about him being a stallion, and I guess I am scared of losing that.? He is 5 years old.?

Thanks.? Kim

____________ _________ _________ __
From: "PrincessLisa369@ aol.com" <PrincessLisa369@ aol.com>
To: askavet@yahoogroups .com
Sent: Sunday, 27 September, 2009 3:32:50 PM
Subject: [AskAVet] Bleach Bath?
?
I'm new to horse ownership and everyday I learn more and more how different horses are to care for than dogs.? Some of the remedies and solutions people use for their horses have made my eyes pop but I don't now everything so I ask questions.? I know a guy who?washes his horse with laundry detergent and bleach...yes bleach.??He said that a person from animal control told him it keeps bugs off of him.? Is this true?

Lisa